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Statement on UG:MP


LocMax
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5 hours ago, Randall said:

 

I've been monitoring the whole project of Overground Roleplay for the past months and I honestly can't and will not accept that the hard work of so many people will now go to waste because of this.

 

This project would benefit both UG:MP and the Valrise Community since it was a very good opportunity to expand. 

The developers of both sides, UG:MP and our people here have placed a lot of effort.

Do you want to throw away your hard work? Or other's people work?

 

Its possible errors were made in the communications, but think how positive this server would benefit and make so many people happy.

It would also benefit UG:MP because Valrise has the experience to lead and grow a stable community, with the obvious example of the SA:MP server.

This would also promote the modification and attract more players.

 

Now, instead of writing long answers explaining what happened in the past, let's find a way to carry this project on.

 

And don't do this for yourself or to cover your position but for the people waiting this project for so many months. 

And for the people that may not know this project for now but one day will spend hundrends of hours playing.

Because this is what is going to happen if you solve this now.

 

Both of you know that.

There is still hope it depends on you.

@RzDat@LocMax

 

I dont forsee that happening. You cannot expect a community to try and reason with unreasonable people. As we speak right now, Mikro probably one of the nicest dudes around here got banned from their UG discord. Mind you he merely agreed with LocMax's viewpoint on Valrise's discord and not theirs. Yet he still won't address why Mikro got banned. That should speak to the level of incompetence.

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Oke, time for me to join in on this as I think out of all the people I wanted this to prosper the most as I was hyped for it for years.

 

-First I would like to note that one of our Owners got banned of the UG discords while he was not toxic, aggressive nor offensive towards any of the UG staff, showing how professionally you handle things.

 

dkluin wasn't willing to provide us some things such as a complete list of weapon names, vehicle model names, tuning component names and such from the source code. Which resulted in a lot of manual work, while there was already barely time.

 

There is SOME data in the documentation, but to develop and add features/components we needed raw data which we didn't have access to so Mikro had to dig manually of their site for everything.

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

That was at a time where our expectations with UG:MP's release was extremely high

 This proves that you didn't really have a real grasp of your own creation and how it will prosper. I think because you put on so many hours into this you thought it was going to be full on success, that it would put out SAMP of the equation. It didn't. 

 

 

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

You didn't include some parts of the conversation... why?

You were saying? 

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When your own leader disrespects and "bashes" the platform you have based your mod you can't really talk about professionalism and demand respect.

 

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

LocMax also put on a different face when talking to us on our server, which is one of the many reasons it was difficult taking him seriously.

 

 

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

Let's not forget that the server was extremely lacking in features and was heavily neglected in terms of updates, as the last update was only a few days after UG:MP was released.

 

LocMax put tons of hours of hardwork on that server and abandoned the developing of our SA:MP one (which is quite successful BTW, with features equal to the ones in OGRR) so he could make it work. Also the fact that there is no changelog registered doesn't mean he didn't work on the server's updates., despite the lack of players.

 

Spoiler

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7 hours ago, RzDat said:

Hours after UG:MP's release, players started to get annoyed by the fact that OGRP was lacking in features - There were no available cars at all, No custom weapons (or weapons at all) and the play area was restricted to Vice City only. It was agreed upon with the rest of the OGRP staff that we will start spawning in some vehicles for players to enjoy and show them UG:MP's features using non-roleplay methods. In the end, we managed to entertain a lot of players who hate roleplay and were very keen to try UG:MP's brand new stuff by preventing them from leaving. We only use surfly for development purposes, but after the first day of release, we did not use cheats at all to break RP.

 

Another blind statement of yours, I really think you guys just can't admit that the project flopped and fail to see what you did wrong. When UGMP opened people wanted to explore EVERYTHING - weapons, all of the cars, maps. The only server that was stable and whitelisted was ours, a ROLEPLAY server. You might not like rolepaly servers, but I think you know the concept of such servers you have to earn cash to buy things and as it is sticking to realism we can't make available every weapon or car to be buyable, let alone usable for everyone for free.

We needed only those few minutes of free roamers and high-ranked Underground staff to be seen flying around to think the server is a joke by all the roleplayers that were expecting the release of UGMP so they can join and roleplay in a server. After seeing people using "non-roleplay methods" in a ROLEPALY server, of course they will have a low opinion. So our server was screwed for being the first one to open, rather than rewarded. Pushing away the player that we actually wanted to attract, which were lost not only for the server, but for the platform.

 

- The Truth was quite frequently unprofessional and using his position for malicious things

- The truth's public shaming of the server in UG discord

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

The Truth was dedicated to your server and worked hard to see OGRP succeed yet you threw him under the bus.

If by worked hard you mean flying with me in a car to show me the lighting of two buildings during the night, while we wanted to test out bugs two days before the release - YES he did work hard. Not counting the random shooting that led to us being knocked down, that led to us crashing (God forbid, your mod had a bug) Not to mention his hunger for power and the lust to acquire assets as stated by LocMax above.

 

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

As I said before, UG:MP will continue development despite the Valrise' team best effort to bring us down

Ugh...WHAT? Valrise's team best effort was to launch a server on your platform where people can enjoy roleplaying at. None tried to bring you down :)

 

The REAL Conclusion:

While the UG team, tries to blame the lack of features in OGRP and the attitude of ours, they neglect the fact that their platform itself now is empty, while we have a stable SAMP Server running, proving the fact that nothing was wrong with Valrise's UGMP server, but with UGMP itself. Furthermore the server is partly built and formed by it's playerbase - which the platform lacks, so you can't expect from us to have a healthy server running. If it was our fault I don't think other UGMP servers (you are probably aware which) would give up on developing/releasing the server on their platform. Your ambition and hours put in this project makes you fail to see your mistakes and it follows wit denying any critics as you seek the blame in others and not yourselves.

NOTE: Despite you thinking we want to bring you down, I really hope a reality check hits you and you make this mod work and attract players and have a successful run. Good luck.

 

 

Edited by Devitt
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  • Community Manager

I won't bother writing an essay again as it's simply not worth the effort or time just like converting a server for the platform wasn't worth the effort and time. You had a whole team of 3D artists (modelers) resign in a matter of week for similar reasons as the current servers on UG:MP which are closing and stopping development left and right. Let's show some images..

 

Spoiler

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You have the audacity to come on our forum, after for absolutely no reason banning one of the owners of the community, who absolutely said nothing on your discord at all, and only submitted one brief statement on our own discord, which was in no way rude, disrespectful or provocative, whilst your whole top platform leadership team repeatedly presents incompetence in management in many areas, being unable to produce a perfected mod after 6 YEARS of development with TEAMS of various artists, developers, modders and whatnot, then you really need to reconsider some things and find some shame to borrow when you have none yourselves. You couldn't even maintain a team of modelers on your side for long enough to complete just one unique city. 

 

Claiming that Valrise this, Valrise that, X person this, Y person that whilst completely disregarding your team's disregard for blatantly obvious lacks of your platform, the contradictions in dkluin's statements where in one instance he calls UG-MP dead himself and claims "he told everyone it'd be dead" then in another instance he suddenly claims it's better and more lively than SA-MP...

 

Spoiler

UG-MP is dead...

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UG-MP is far more alive than SA-MP...

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And then the childish creation of various justifications and excuses of why the platform has not many active players... blaming the uninteresting servers, lack of servers, bad server owners, bad players, etc... I mean it just doesn't end. The truth (the one you cannot handle, not the person in your team) is that your platform came too late. If you had made it multiplayer from the get-go in 2015 you might've have made an impact and drawn players. Now, players are going to play modern games such as FiveM, RageMP, and so on. That's a fact. FiveM reached 200,000 players recently online.

 

Besides that, if open.mp team completes their upgrade of SA-MP, and delivers just a few extra steps, you will have no technical advantage over SA-MP. SA-MP's 0.3 DL version already allows implementation of custom skins, and objects. There were already VC and LC maps implemented into servers on this SA-MP version. So practically your only advantage versus SA-MP is some extra weathers, vehicles and weapons (which just have different models and shoot at different speeds). And that advantage is wiped if open.mp team implements the ability for servers to add custom vehicles and weapons. 

 

So, as was said numerous times by many individuals, whether from Valrise or outside of Valrise, wake up, come to reality, accept your failures and underwhelming delivery of a product, and move on. Maybe work on combining COD MW1, MW2, MW3 in one world with all their skins, weapons and maps and make it a multiplayer from the beginning. Just throwing some ideas.

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7 hours ago, RzDat said:

After this, There will be no more talks between the UG team and Valrise.

That is basically what you and your team assured already by your blunt and unprofessional actions. We put a massive amount of effort to help bring your dream alive just before your deadline, but that was never met with respect after release. All problems were blamed on us and all substantiated criticism we had was met with a wall of ignorance.

 

I find it quite frankly utterly disrespectful that you come here to tell us there will be no talks anymore and make it appear like that is because of this topic. This while it was YOU who removed us already from the whitelist over an argument. It was YOU who left the "talks". It was YOU who banned me from your discord.

 

 

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

That was at a time where our expectations with UG:MP's release was extremely high, we did not force you in any way to migrate or completely abandon your SA:MP server. Saying so is just another attempt to smear us as toxic people.

Once this was known, your team was in fact trying to make us merge completely. They were having "talks" with other servers in an effort to make us change our opinion. Servers which we have never seen.

 

7 hours ago, RzDat said:

complete disrespect to the partnership between UG and Valrise and most important of all

Truth and dkluin leaving our server after an argument. No promotion towards us despite promised before release. Truth calling Valrise a BANNED WORD in YOUR discord. It is UG who had a complete disrespect to the "partnership".

 

And we did not even talk yet about the secretive behavior of Truth and dkluin regarding their server plans. They were basically trying to have their cake and eat it too. Withholding information from involved servers in order to make them appear more special. Their controlling and not-open behavior already set the tone of this "partnership".

 

---

 

The rest of your arguments are already either thrown out by Pete or by Matthew in his original post. You are chronologically twisting around the truth in your favor. It is easy to point a negative reaction of us when you neglect what happened before. Of course for example Jason will voice his concerns, in a perhaps blunt fashion, after he was numerous times met by your wall of ignorance. Before and just after release Jason did barely sleep for days to keep finding bugs and attempted to establish RP groups, build a team, etc. This will The Truth was flying around in the server distracting everyone from progressing.

 

NOTE: We never intended to bring you down or something. But we did feel the need to be open about what happened and have the truth out there for people to make their own judgement.

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9 hours ago, RzDat said:

Hello, I'm gonna make my inquiry about the arguments pointed out in LocMax's post and reply to them. I'm not here to reply to any other post nor gonna waste more time on this pointless drama. After this, There will be no more talks between the UG team and Valrise.

- We had to do the whole server in 15 days to make it playable and interesting
LocMax and the rest of the team knew the risk and were not forced into that position. After we finished polishing the last known bugs for UG:MP's release, we were looking for servers who are willing to accept exclusive dev builds and get their servers ready for release. LocMax and his team accepted this task and knew the time limit without hesitation. Once we all agreed on it, the countdown to UG:MP's release has started.

 

dkluin wasn't willing to provide us some things such as a complete list of weapon names, vehicle model names, tuning component names and such from the source code. Which resulted in a lot of manual work, while there was already barely time.

We provided you with all the necessary information from our website's documentation, it had weapon names, vehicle model names, tuning component names and much more - giving out the source code is an extremely risky move to us especially when we are already putting a lot of trust on the Valrise team.

https://gtaundergroundmod.com/pages/ug-mp/documentation

 

- They wanted us to close our SA:MP server and completely merge into UG:MP

That was at a time where our expectations with UG:MP's release was extremely high, we did not force you in any way to migrate or completely abandon your SA:MP server. Saying so is just another attempt to smear us as toxic people.

 

- They repeatedly demanded admin levels in the server

An untold fact: About 70-90 players joined during the first few hours of UG:MP's release and with them - a lot of hackers. The amount of hackers who started flooding the server demanded an extra layer of protection so other players can safely explore and experience the server, in addition to many other players who are asking for help and/or don't know what to do and how to continue. In short: We were given admin privileges just so we can help the server fend off the first wave of players.

 

- They were given our suggestions for installer, better client, etc.. and kept acting in denial about it

The suggestions that came from Valrise sometimes came off in a very toxic and disrespectful manner, sometimes the criticism we got was just plain useless:

-No Landmass: This is just a fantasy, we don't have the resources nor the manpower to pull off such an ambitious project just so there will be "more content" for servers. GTA: Underground was initially about reuniting the 3D era but ended up adding lots of new BETA content and custom made content. Over the years grew the misconception that Landmass will also appear at one point but it was never promised in an official statement. UG already offers plenty of content from all of the 3D era GTA's, the Manhunt series, Bully and a lot more custom made weapons and vehicles with different stats. At the end of the day we are developers of a free mod who are doing from passion to the GTA series, we will not break our backs and lose our sanity for something we never promised.

-Mediocre skin list: As I stated before - Cherry picking. UG offers skins from all of the 3D era GTA's, Manhunts, Bully and loads of custom skins yet somehow this is not good?

 

In the end we did make an installer, but it seems like the Valrise team was not very fond of it...

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- They were constantly playing other servers and tagging @ everyone on their discord but never came on ours

Truth be told, me and dkluin were never fans of roleplay servers, however you did not mention the fact that TheTruth was the one who was hooked up on Valrise and was keen on spending his free time trying to promote OGRP:

 

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However, in typical fashion - Nobody came to the event and LocMax ended up laughing at an attempt to promote his own server.

Let's not forget that the server was extremely lacking in features and was heavily neglected in terms of updates, as the last update was only a few days after UG:MP was released.

 

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- They were using hacks on the server in front of players and thereby ruining its public opinion

Hours after UG:MP's release, players started to get annoyed by the fact that OGRP was lacking in features - There were no available cars at all, No custom weapons (or weapons at all) and the play area was restricted to Vice City only. It was agreed upon with the rest of the OGRP staff that we will start spawning in some vehicles for players to enjoy and show them UG:MP's features using non-roleplay methods. In the end, we managed to entertain a lot of players who hate roleplay and were very keen to try UG:MP's brand new stuff by preventing them from leaving. We only use surfly for development purposes, but after the first day of release, we did not use cheats at all to break RP.

 

- The Truth was quite frequently unprofessional and using his position for malicious things

- The truth's public shaming of the server in UG discord

A lot of the things you presented were taken extremely out of context, The Truth was dedicated to your server and worked hard to see OGRP succeed yet you threw him under the bus. The general attitude towards your server was so unprofessional and it seems like only TT truly cared about it.

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- Them ironically being offended when having their platform called out

We receive a ton of criticism, sometimes we accept it and sometimes we don't. Personally I have taken LocMax's long paragraphs into account but it's very hard to take him seriously especially when he treats his own UG:MP server like dogshit, barely communicates with us and only tells us step up our game. In addition to Maxwell's constant trolling and LocMax just encouraging him to continue hurling insults - We started taking Valrise's "criticism" less seriously.

 

- dkluin's abuse of power banning Jason Maxwell and warning him for not even hostile or badly written statements saying they should've released sooner

You didn't include some parts of the conversation... why?

 

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My Conclusion

I was the only UG Dev left in the Valrise server and the one who decided to pull the plug on Valrise' whitelist status. The reason? Unprofessionalism from LocMax and his team, complete disrespect to the partnership between UG and Valrise and most important of all: The complete neglect and poor behavior towards the OGRP server. LocMax occasionally joined in the crowd by mocking UG:MP and mocking his own server - basically spitting on his own work and expecting it to be our responsibility for his server to succeed:

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LocMax also put on a different face when talking to us on our server, which is one of the many reasons it was difficult taking him seriously.

 

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As I said before, UG:MP will continue development despite the Valrise' team best effort to bring us down. We are passionate and enthusiastic modders and we are working on this project  completely out of passion for the game and not for money. Therefore I ask that Valrise and UG:MP will go their own separate ways peacefully. We will continue developing our mod and Valrise will continue their work in SA:MP.

 

NOTE: The Valrise team may choose to stay on the internet tab if they wish to prevent discarding all of the work they put on the server, however being on the whitelist is out of the question.

 

Thank you for reading this. As I said above, I will not answer any replies.

 

 

This just seems like a failure to take criticism, instead of trying to improve your mod, you go and silence the people criticising you. Prime examlpe being removing Mikro & the community from the whitelist.  

 

 

"As I said before, UG:MP will continue development despite the Valrise' team best effort to bring us down" 

 

Haven't you brought Valrise down from your whitelist first after being criticised? 

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12 hours ago, RzDat said:

- They were given our suggestions for installer, better client, etc.. and kept acting in denial about it

 

i myself gave the suggestion, replied i got were: lol whats hard in copy pasting stuff?

Spoiler

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Not sure if you got offended by my suggestions

 

Yeah since i was frustrated to install the clean game for the fifth time literally
your new update made more of the mods incompatible which resulted in me having to install it once again
 

Spoiler

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Now tell me if what i said was invalid, please.

 

Edited by AMR
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So basically UGMP was ran by a bunch of cunts that can't take the slightest ounce of criticism or own up to their sketchy shit.  It's almost like I seen this story before.  

 

"SA:MP is dying"

While true it's still not as dead as your shit tier mod.  Take this L you deserved it.

 

image.png.dc0d8b9a2e9a81ae91c21639640a26f5.png

 

 

 

Edited by Vendrell.
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1 hour ago, Vendrell. said:

So basically UGMP was ran by a bunch of cunts that can't take the slightest ounce of criticism or own up their sketchy shit.  It's almost like I seen this story before.  

 

"SA:MP is dying"

While true it's still not as dead as your shit tier mod 

 

image.png.dc0d8b9a2e9a81ae91c21639640a26f5.png

 

 

 

hahaha yeeeeep :D 

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  • 4 weeks later...

These are the people who used to create threads such as "Is SA-MP dead", "SA-MP is dying", "Is Kalcor Alive?" and similar topics on SA-MP forums over and over again. I won't say that UG-MP didn't had features what SA-MP couldn't offer but the SA-MP Team knew how to actually grow and develop their mod & community while the UG-MP team were demanding admin levels in the communities that are growing.

 

Their intention was clear that they wanted Valrise Roleplay (SA-MP) to become a server based on UG-MP only and not affiliated with any other modification so they can take control over it and you know what they can do if anything goes against their policies, and not to mention their policies includes: must give admin power, discord roles*, permission to use surfly and so on otherwise it will make them disappointed, in my opinion, looking at their behavior, they are not actually mature enough or experienced enough to manage a community, I agree that they made a nice mod but couldn't do better management And I am sure that that if Valrise Management would have taken the decision to merge then it wouldn't where it is now and as you can see UG-MP is not alive anymore, they would obviously blame the server management for not getting enough players and it could end up a bad ending. Demanding admin levels is something that you shouldn't even expect from a new player, and they are management of a modification, says enough about their management and future of their modification development. They can just keep blaming SA-MP for petty reasons such as the code, forums management, et cetera while I saw them using SA-MP forums to advertise their own modification, which is irony. The summary is that they wanted to take control over the Valrise Roleplay by convincing the management to shift the community from SA-MP to UG-MP and reveal the truths one by one.

 

But the Valrise Management outsmarted them and really made the best decision available to them.

Outplayed, I'd say.

Edited by Renisal
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